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Brad Mills: Although judgment is a dirty word in our culture, it is biblical. The holiness of God demands his wrath. Liberal pastors minimize God’s wrath in order to be accepted by the culture. But this comes at a great cost to the truth and sufficiency of Scripture. Arguing against this tendency, Richard Niebuhr described the liberal gospel in this way:

“A God without wrath bought men without sin into a kingdom without judgment through the ministration of a Christ without a cross.”

When we remove the concepts of wrath and sin and judgment, we lose the ministry of a Christ who saves. Revelation is replete with the idea of God’s wrath as a righteous response to sin.

Grant Osborne: Repeated themes in Revelation

  • The retribution of divine judgment, which reaches its high point in Revelation 16 where God gives the earth-dwellers a taste of what they have done to His people.  It’s what they deserve – it’s called lex talionis – you reap what you sow.
  • The sovereignty of God over creation and the forces of evil are put vividly on display – He is in control of His world and will punish the rebellious and ungodly.
  • God allows evil to come full circle and participate in its own destruction – the battle of Armageddon.
  • The judgments of God throughout the book, culminating in the bowl judgments of chapters 15-16, provide yet more opportunity for repentance.  Meaning, God’s redemptive mission to the world continues to the very end.
  • But yet again, the total depravity of humanity is also put on display as three times in chapter 16, instead of repenting, they curse God and blaspheme His name.
  • And so finally, the progressive dismantling of creation continues to the end as God’s creation is finally released from its bondage to decay – and participates in God’s judgment of sinners – through scorching sun, earthquakes, hailstorms, and blood-polluted waters.

J.A. Seiss: The effects of these judgments overlap each other.  The sores of the first plague are still felt during the second and third, and even here under the fifth.  This proves that these plagues all fall upon the people of one and the same generation, and hence dare not be extended through centuries.  The Antichrist has but 3 ½ years, and all seven of these last plagues fall upon him and his followers.  Here his very throne is assailed, and his entire dominion is filled with darkness.

Albert Mohler: The fifth and sixth bowls ae direct assaults against the beast’s kingdom and include a plague of darkness and preparation for the final battle.

George Ladd: These plagues are not the expression of God’s wrath against sin in general, nor are they punishments for individual wrongdoing. They are the outpouring of his wrath upon him who would frustrate the divine purpose in the world — the beast — and upon those who have given their loyalty to him.

James Hamilton: So the final warnings have been issued. The power of God has been displayed one final time. He has absolute authority over land, sea, rivers, and sun; he can afflict the throne of the beast, and his enemies can only gather against him because he gives them the opportunity by drying up the Euphrates. Rather than repenting, they have gathered for war. So now the seventh bowl will be poured out, and its results show that the time has come.


A.  (:10a) Target of Judgment

And the fifth angel poured out his bowl upon the throne of the beast;

Kendell Easley: So far the avenging angels have poured their bowls onto natural elements: land, sea, waters, and sun. The impact on human life as nature is destroyed can only be described as cataclysmic. Yet the monster is still in charge. Antichrist is proudly in control. All that begins to change with the next two bowls. The seventh and final bowl will conclude what these next two begin.

The fifth angel’s bowl scores a direct hit on the throne of the beast, obviously meaning that Antichrist’s center of power is under attack at last. This “throne” had been a gift from the dragon to the beast (13:2), and now for the first time something threatens it.

G.K. Beale: The throne represents the beast’s sovereignty over his realm. Therefore, the bowl affects his ability to rule.

Donald Barnhouse: If the literal Babylon is to be rebuilt, it may already have become the place of the throne of Satan by the time that is in view here under the fifth bowl.

William Newell: The Beast is a man (Rev. 13:18+); therefore his throne is in a definite place: rebuilt Babylon on the Euphrates, we believe,—Satan’s ancient capital, in the ‘land of Shinar,’ where ‘wickedness’ is to be set on its base in the end-time (Zec. 5:5-10).

B.  (:10b) Malady

  1. Darkness

and his kingdom became darkened;

Buist Fanning: This darkness is not destruction itself but a frightening symbol of ongoing distress and impending cataclysmic judgment (cf. day-of-the-Lord texts like Joel 2:2; Amos 5:20; Zeph 1:15). In vv. 10c–11 John cites the ongoing severe distress that accompanies the darkness: their “pain” that causes them to “gnaw their tongues” is not due to the darkness per se but the physical afflictions that come from the previous bowls of judgment. One of them is mentioned specifically in v. 11a (“their sores”) along with a repetition of “their pains.”

Daniel Akin: The fifth bowl judgment is reminiscent of the ninth Egyptian plague (Exod 10:21-29). It starts locally but extends worldwide. The throne of the beast, the antichrist, is the object of this judgment. He and his kingdom are “plunged into darkness.” We do not know precisely in what way this happens. It could be economic, physical, political, spiritual, or any and all of these (but see Mark 13:24-27). This bowl judgment is unique in that it’s specifically targeted at the “throne” of the beast. The fifth angel’s bowl seems primarily to affect the center of the beast’s kingdom, the heart of his power. While the other bowl judgments seem to be global, this one might be more localized. That opens up different possibilities for what it might actually be, in literal terms.

This judgment cloaks the beast’s kingdom in darkness. The beast and his followers loved moral and spiritual darkness, now they experience a more tangible form of darkness. If this is a literal physical loss of light, it might mean all electrical grids fail, and environmental conditions combine to create a thick, noxious darkness. Without electricity, and in the grip of natural disasters, it would be nearly impossible to use a computer, drive a car, or conduct business. TV news would be silent. Business would fail. Fear will grip people’s hearts.

When God smote the ancient Egyptians with darkness, people could not see one another and no one dared to move about (Exodus 10:22–23). The prophet Joel predicted that the tribulation would be a day of thick darkness (Joel 2:2). Afflicted by “harmful and painful sores” (Revelation 16:2) and scorched by the sun (Revelation 16:9), people will not be able to obtain medical help in the total blackout. They will gnaw their tongues in pain. This darkness will preview the horrible outer darkness in which the wicked will spend eternity (see Matthew 8:11–12).

Donald Barnhouse: The transition from the fourth to the fifth bowls is most striking. The one had been the fiery, scorching, blinding brightness of the sun; the next is an impenetrable darkness.

Tony Garland: Although the throne of the Beast is empowered by Lucifer, the shining one, the son of the dawn (הֵילֵל בֶּן־שַׁחַר [hêlēl ben–šaḥar], Isa. 14:12), he is helpless to illumine the God-imposed darkness.

John MacArthur: As He did long ago in Egypt (Ex. 10:21–29), God will turn up the intense suffering of the sinful world by turning out the lights. After the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, his kingdom became darkened (cf. 9:2; Ex. 10:21–23). Commentators disagree over where specifically this bowl will be dumped. Some think it will be on the actual throne that the beast sits on; others on his capital city of Babylon; still others on his entire kingdom. It is best to see the throne as a reference to his kingdom, since the bowl poured out on the throne darkens the whole kingdom. Regardless of the exact location of where the bowl is dumped, the result is that darkness engulfs the whole earth, which is Antichrist’s worldwide kingdom. The beast will be as helpless before the power of God as anyone else.

  1. Pain

and they gnawed their tongues because of pain,

G.K. Beale: God causes all who follow the beast to have times of anguish and horror when they realize that they are in spiritual darkness, that they are separated from God and that eternal darkness awaits them. The temporal judgment in v. 10 is a precursor of the final judgment, when unbelievers will be “cast into the outer darkness,” where “there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matt. 8:12; cf. Matt. 22:13; 25:30).

C.  (:11) Defiant Unrepentant Response

  1. Blasphemed God

and they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores;

Thomas Constable: The title “the God of heaven” recalls the pride of Nebuchadnezzar and his successors (cf. Daniel 2:44).

Robert Mounce: Far from repenting of their evil, the followers of the beast curse God because of their pains and sores. They have become one in character with their evil master, whose most characteristic activity is to blaspheme God and his followers (13:5, 6; cf. 13:1; 17:3). The term “God of heaven” may reflect Dan 2:44, where it is used of the One who in his sovereignty destroys the kingdoms of this world and establishes his universal reign. That people blaspheme because of their pains and their sores indicates that the discomfort of the previous plagues continues into the present. But punishment does not bring repentance. The decision to persevere in evil has permanently precluded any possibility of a return to righteousness.

Matthew Henry:  The heart of man is so desperately wicked, that the most severe miseries never will bring any to repent, without the special grace of God. Hell itself is filled with blasphemies; and those are ignorant of the history of human nature, of the Bible, and of their own hearts, who do not know that the more men suffer, and the more plainly they see the hand of God in their sufferings, the more furiously they often rage against him. Let sinners now seek repentance from Christ, and the grace of the Holy Spirit, or they will have the anguish and horror of an unhumbled, impenitent, and desperate heart; thus adding to their guilt and misery through all eternity. Darkness is opposed to wisdom and knowledge, and forebodes the confusion and folly of the idolaters and followers of the beast. It is opposed to pleasure and joy, and signifies anguish and vexation of spirit.

Charles Swindoll: Revelation 16:11 reminds us that the afflictions suffered by the enemies of God are cumulative. The sores brought on by the first bowl will continue to fester as the darkness closes in around them. The water that would have soothed their sun-scorched flesh will stand in stinking, stagnant pools; once-clean water will be polluted with decaying blood.

  1. Stubbornly Refused to Repent

and they did not repent of their deeds.

Grant Osborne: The ἔργων are evil deeds; the deeds are spelled out in 9:20–21: worshiping demons and idols, murder, sorcery, immorality, and stealing. In 16:11 this would particularly refer to worshiping the beast (cf. 15:2–4) and murdering the saints (cf. 16:5–6).

John Miller: The Bible indicates that you can reach a point of no return, where your heart spiritually atrophies. You were made for God. You were made to know God. You were made to be in fellowship with God. If you reject the Light, refuse to repent and harden your heart, then your heart will atrophy. You’ll reach the point where the Bible says, “Therefore they could not believe.” These people who this judgment is coming upon are the people who have crossed that line. They’ve been deceived. They cannot be saved. There comes a time when God’s patience will run out. The wrath of God in the bowls is the last series of plagues poured out on mankind.

John MacArthur: This is the last reference to their unwillingness to repent. The first five plagues were God’s final call to repentance. Sinners ignored that call, and are now confirmed in their unbelief. The final two bowls, containing the severest of all the judgments, will be poured out on hardened, implacable impenitents.

John Schultz: We have the impression, however, that more happens than a mere physical event. The bowl that is poured out over the throne of the beast steeps his empire in darkness. All of a sudden the power of the Antichrist is taken away from him; he is cut off from his source of power. The powers of darkness become darkness themselves. The beast and its followers have become weak. Isaiah’s prophecy is being fulfilled here: “You also have become weak, as we are; you have become like us.”  . . .   This is what will happen with the glory and power of the Antichrist. God’s wrath will leave the powerful powerless. Even in their weakened condition people will not turn to the Lord.


A.  (:12a) Target of Judgment

And the sixth angel poured out his bowl upon the great river, the Euphrates;

Thomas Constable: The problem that this judgment poses for earth-dwellers is not a result of the judgment itself but its consequences, namely, war. It does not inflict a plague on people but serves as a preparation for the final eschatological battle. [Note: Ladd, p. 212.] The Euphrates River is the northeastern border of the land God promised to Abraham’s descendants (Genesis 15:18; Deuteronomy 1:7; Deuteronomy 11:24; Joshua 1:4). The Bible calls the Euphrates River (cf. Genesis 2:14), the eastern border of the Promised Land, the great river; and it calls the Mediterranean Sea, the western border of the Promised Land, the Great Sea. Now God dries up this river that had previously turned into blood (Revelation 16:4) so the kings of the East can cross with their armies (cf. Daniel 11:44; Isaiah 11:15). God earlier dried up the Red Sea so the Israelites could advance on the Promised Land from the west (Exodus 14:21-22; cf. Isaiah 11:16). He also dried up the Jordan River so they could cross over from the east (Joshua 3:13-17; Joshua 4:23). Elijah too parted the waters of the Jordan (2 Kings 2:8). Cyrus may have conquered Babylon by draining the Euphrates and marching into the city over the riverbed (cf. Jeremiah 50:38; Jeremiah 51:36). [Note: Herodotus, 1:191. But see Edward J. Young, The Book of Isaiah , 3:191.] All these previous incidents should help us believe that a literal fulfillment of this prophecy is possible. A figurative interpretation sees Babylon as the world system and the waters of the Euphrates River as the multitudes of Babylon’s religious adherents who, throughout the world during the inter-advent age, become disloyal to Babylon. [Note: See Beale, p. 828.]

Some interpreters believe this is an Oriental invasion of Babylon in the future that will be similar to Cyrus’ invasion of it in the past. [Note: E.g., Swete, p. 205.] However, these are probably the Oriental armies that will assemble in Israel for the battle of Armageddon referred to in Revelation 16:13-16. [Note: Walvoord, The Revelation . . ., p. 236.] The drying up of the

Euphrates will be an immediate help to these advancing armies, but it will set them up for defeat, as was true of Pharaoh’s army.

John MacArthur: As the longest and most significant river in the Middle East, the Euphrates deserves to be called the great river (cf. 9:14; Gen. 15:18; Deut. 1:7; Josh. 1:4). Its source is in the snowfields and ice cap high on the slopes of Mount Ararat (located in modern Turkey), from which it flows some eighteen hundred miles before emptying into the Persian Gulf. In ancient times the Garden of Eden was located in the vicinity of the Euphrates (Gen. 2:10–14). The Euphrates also formed the eastern boundary of the land God gave to Israel (Gen. 15:18; Deut. 1:7; 11:24; Josh. 1:4). Along with the nearby Tigris, the Euphrates is still the lifeblood of the Fertile Crescent.

B.  (:12b) Malady

and its water was dried up, that the way might be prepared for the kings from the east.

G. K. Beale: The prophecy was fulfilled fairly literally by Cyrus, who diverted the waters of the Euphrates (Isa. 44:27-28). This allowed his army to cross the now shallow waters of the river, enter the city unexpectedly, and defeat the Babylonians. God executed judgment against Babylon by raising up Cyrus, who was to come “from the east” (Isa. 41:2; 46:11), or “from the rising of the sun” (41:25). Jer. 50:41 and 51:11, 28 refer to “kings” whom God was preparing to bring against Babylon. The victory by Cyrus led to Israel’s release from captivity (Isa. 44:26-28; 45:13). In the OT, God is always the One who dries up the water, whether for redemption or judgment. John understands this pattern typologically and universalizes it. As noted at Rev. 14:8, the symbolic interpretation of Babylon as representing the world system is assured beyond much reasonable doubt by the prophecies of God’s judgment on historical Babylon, which foretold that Babylon will be desolate forever and never again be inhabited (Jer. 50:39-40; 51:24-26, 62-64; so also Isa. 13:19-22). As at the exodus and especially at the fall of historical Babylon, the drying up of the Euphrates in Revelation 16 marks the prelude to the destruction of latter-day Babylon. . .

The idea here is that God, as He did in the days of Cyrus, will dry up the waters of the river protecting and nurturing Babylon to allow for the kings of the earth, under immediate demonic influence but ultimately under God’s sovereign control, to gather together in order for Babylon to be defeated and for His eternal kingdom and the reign of His saints to be established.

J. Hampton Keathley, III: “The kings from the east” is literally “the kings from the rising sun.” This is a poetical expression signifying the kings from where the sun rises, as China, Japan, India, Persia, and Afghanistan. So here we see God’s divine activity; God acting in His sovereignty using the wrath and rebellion of Satan and man to carry out his own purposes. Knowing the mind of Satan and man, the Lord will dry up this natural barrier to an invasion of the land of Palestine.

It is God’s purpose to deal with the nations in judgment in the land of Palestine. Knowing Satan’s purpose and objectives, God will use him and his demonic activity to inspire the nations to move into Palestine.

John MacArthur: God’s drying up of the Euphrates is not an act of kindness toward the kings from the east, but one of judgment. They and their armies will be entering a deadly trap. The evaporation of the Euphrates will lead them to their doom, just as the parting of the Red Sea led to the destruction of the Egyptian army. Why they will make the daunting journey that will take them to their doom, through the drought, scorching heat, darkness, and their painful sores, is stated in vv. 13–14.

John Walvoord: This final world conflict is clearly the work of Satan, since it is against God. We know this from the parenthetical section of verses 13–16, in which John has an additional vision of three unclean spirits that is related to the sixth bowl. Their source is the counterfeit trinity of the world ruler specified as the beast, his associate who is the false prophet, and the dragon himself, Satan (cf. 12:9; 13:1–8, 11–18). These spirits are specified as demonic, and should be so interpreted. They are able (cf. 13:12–15) and commissioned to gather the kings of the entire earth to do battle against “God the Almighty”—meaning they are doomed to defeat! In the battle the omnipotence of God will be fully demonstrated.

C.  (:13-16) Demonic Galvanizing of the Kings of the Earth in Preparation for Armageddon

  1. (:13-14)  Forces of Evil Galvanize the Kings of the Earth

a.  (:13) Demonic Spirits from the Anti-Trinity of the Dragon, the Beast and the False Prophet

And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon

and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs;

Robert Mounce: John sees three evil spirits coming out of the mouths of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. The dragon is without doubt the seven-headed dragon of chapter 12 (specifically identified as Satan in 12:9), and the beast is the beast out of the sea as described in the first ten verses of chapter 13. The false prophet (appearing by that name for the first time) is surely the beast out of the earth of 13:11–17.  The evil spirits come out of the mouths of the unholy triumvirate, suggesting the persuasive and deceptive propaganda that in the last days will lead people to an unconditional commitment to the cause of evil. . .

That the three spirits looked like frogs emphasizes their uncleanness and perhaps their endless croaking. Williams takes the final phrase in an adverbial sense and supplies a verb—“Then I saw three foul spirits leap like frogs from the mouths of the dragon.”

Tony Garland: The three spirits correspond to the three personages of the “antitrinity” : the dragon, the Beast, and the False Prophet. All three work together with a unified goal of drawing the nations to battle. The dragon is Satan and the devil, both names which indicate his slanderous accusations (Rev. 12:9+). “When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it” (John 8:44). The Beast is known for his blasphemous mouth (Dan. 7:8, 11, 20, 25; Da 11:36; Rev. 13:6+) and the False Prophet, although appearing like a lamb, speaks like a dragon—He tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast (Rev. 13:11+). Each of these would be highly influential on their own, but aided by unclean spirits, their deception is especially effective.

William Barclay: It is said that the unclean spirits were like frogs.

(1)  Frogs are connected with plagues. One of the plagues in Egypt was a plague of frogs (Exodus 8:5–11). ‘He sent among them … frogs, which destroyed them,’ says the psalmist

(Psalm 78:45). ‘Their land swarmed with frogs, even in the chambers of their kings’ (Psalm 105:30).

(2)  Frogs are unclean creatures. Although not mentioned by name, they are included by definition in the list of unclean things in the water and the sea which begins in Leviticus 11:10. The frog stands for an unclean influence.

(3)  Frogs are famous for their empty and continuous croaking – brekekekex coax coax, as Aristophanes transliterated it. ‘The frog’, said Augustine, ‘is the most loquacious of vanities’ (Homily on Psalm 77:27). The sound the frog makes is the symbol of meaningless speech.

(4)  In Zoroastrianism, the Persian religion, frogs are the bringers of plagues and the agents of Ahriman, the power of darkness, in his struggle against Ormuzd, the power of light. It is fairly certain that John would know this bit of Persian tradition.

So, to say that frogs came out of the mouths of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet is to say that their words were like plagues, were unclean, were empty and futile, and were the allies of the power of the dark.

b.  (:14)  Demonic Signs Deceive the Nations into Fighting against God Almighty

for they are spirits of demons, performing signs,

which go out to the kings of the whole world,

to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.

J. Hampton Keathley, III: “kings of the whole world” — The participants in this war are: the king of the north and his allies (Ezek. 38). While there is some disagreement here, many believe this will include Russia, Persia (modern Iraq), Ethiopia (northern Sudan or maybe Arabia), Put (Libya and the African block), Gomer (Germany), Beth-togarmah (Turkey), and the king of the south consisting of Egypt and the Arab states. Then there will be the king of the west, the ten nation confederation of the Mediterranean states of Europe. Finally, it will include the kings of the east, the oriental block or nations east of the Euphrates.

John MacArthur: The mission of the demons is to gather not just the eastern powers, but all of the world’s rulers and armies to join the forces from the east for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. In their pride, arrogance, and folly, the demonically deceived nations of the world will converge on Palestine to do battle with God Himself at Armageddon. According to 17:12–14, ten kings will be involved. Joel prophesied of this time in Joel 3:2, 9–13 (cf. Zech. 14:2-3; Ps. 2:1-3).

The war will be over quickly: “These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings” (17:14). In fact, it will not be a war; it will be a slaughter, as 19:11–21 graphically portrays.

  1. (:15) Parenthetical Exhortation to Believers to Readiness

a.  Return of Christ Will be Sudden and Unexpected

(Behold, I am coming like a thief.

J. Hampton Keathley, III: “As a thief” stresses the fact that while the general time of Christ’s return in the Tribulation can be known because of the signs and specific events of the Tribulation (like the drying up of the Euphrates), the exact moment cannot be known (Matt. 24:36; Acts 1:7). Therefore, Tribulation believers are warned to stay awake, producing righteousness for the Lord. They are to live with a view to His return. Some would try to apply this to the church, but though there is some similarity to 1 Thessalonians 4:13f in the fact that Christ will come silently for believers, take what is His, and leave the world in disarray, the primary picture of Christ’s coming for the church is that of a Bridegroom. The thief concept primarily deals with the Tribulation or the day of wrath (cf. 1 Thess 5:2-3).

John MacArthur: Like a thief comes, Jesus will come quickly and unexpectedly. But unlike a thief, He will come not to steal but to take what is rightfully His.

b.  Readiness of Believers Is Essential

Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his garments,

lest he walk about naked and men see his shame.)

Joe Beard: Jesus promises that He is coming, but His coming will be like a thief, it will be unannounced and sudden.  Jesus then gives the third of seven beatitudes in the book of Revelation.  He pronounces a blessing on those who stay awake, that is those who are prepared for His arrival even though it will not be announced.  The imagery that Jesus uses is one of a soldier alert and on duty.  Only a soldier who stays awake and keeps his clothes on is ready for combat.  Jesus promises blessing for those whom He finds prepared when He returns.

  1. (:16)  Forces of the World Nations Gather at Armageddon

And they gathered them together to the place

which in Hebrew is called HarMagedon.

Warren Wiersbe: The name Armageddon comes from two Hebrew words, har Megiddo, the hill of Megiddo. The word Megiddo means “place of troops” or “place of slaughter.” It is also called the Plain of Esdraelon and the Valley of Jezreel. The area is about fourteen miles wide and twenty miles long, and forms what Napoleon called “the most natural battlefield of the whole earth.” Standing on Mount Carmel and overlooking that great plain, you can well understand why it would be used for gathering the armies of the nations. . .

The outcome of the “battle” is recorded in Revelation 19: The Lord returns and defeats His enemies. Obviously, the assembling and marching armies create no problem for Almighty God. When the nations rage and defy Him, “He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure” (Ps. 2:4–5).

John Miller: The battle of Armageddon will be in the Valley of Jezreel. The mountain there is called Megiddo. From it we get our word Armageddon or “hill of Megiddo.” It’s a valley in the middle of Israel where all the armies of the world will gather together at the end of the tribulation just before and during the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. This battle will be raging, and mankind will have the ability to kill himself off planet earth when Jesus Christ comes in His Second Coming. So we still have World War III ahead of us, but the church will have already been “caught up” to be with Christ and will come back with Him in His Second Coming.

The Valley of Jezreel or the plains of Esdraelon is in the central valley of Israel. It is inland a little ways from Haifa and from the Dead Sea. It runs for miles and miles and is surrounded by mountains. Napoleon overlooked this valley and said, “What a great place to bring all the armies of the world together in a battle.” It was here that Barak fought his battle. It was here that Gideon fought his battle. It’s where King Saul was killed on Mount Gilboa. So there were many battles here in the past, and there will be a battle here in the future.